Our guests for episode 5 are Robin Carnahan, the administrator of GSA, and Kiran Ahuja, the director of the Office of Personnel Management. Both agency leaders share insights into the future workforce of the federal government and just why a career in government is so rewarding.
If you've ever considered a career in the federal government, this episode of GSA Does That!? is a must-listen. From tips on how to land a federal job to unveiling some of the lesser-known benefits and opportunities that come with federal employment, you'll gain practical advice and insight that might change your career path.
Want to know more?
For a deeper dive into federal hiring, look at these resources to learn more.
"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.
For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.
Our guests for episode 5 are Robin Carnahan, the administrator of GSA, and Kiran Ahuja, the director of the Office of Personnel Management. Both agency leaders share insights into the future workforce of the federal government and just why a career in government is so rewarding.
If you've ever considered a career in the federal government, this episode of GSA Does That!? is a must-listen. From tips on how to land a federal job to unveiling some of the lesser-known benefits and opportunities that come with federal employment, you'll gain practical advice and insight that might change your career path.
Want to know more?
For a deeper dive into federal hiring, look at these resources to learn more.
"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.
For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.
00;00;06;24 - 00;00;39;21
Rob Trubia
Hey welcome to GSA does that, the podcast that uncovers the stories behind the federal agency delivering effective and efficient government. I'm your host, Rob Trubia. And today we have an episode in store for you that just might lead you down a new career path. Join us as we discuss the future workforce of the federal government. In today's podcast, we have two powerhouse guests joining us, Robin Carnahan, the administrator of GSA, and Kiran Ahuja, the director of Office of Personnel Management, or OPM. We’ll be asking them about the ever changing nature of work, and just how it's affecting the federal workforce. In our digital world today
00;00;39;22 - 00;01;00;04
Rob Trubia
the federal government is on the lookout for the best and brightest Americans to join its workforce. But not only is it about finding new talent, but also retaining the valuable employees they already have. We'll be discussing the hiring process, providing tips on how to land a federal job and talking about some of the benefits that come with federal employment. With the federal government being the largest employer in the nation,
00;01;00;07 - 00;01;28;01
Rob Trubia
there's almost a limitless number of career paths to be explored. We'll discover what GSA administrator Robin Carnahan is looking for to propel the agency forward. Why working for the federal government is such an exciting opportunity. And what OPM director Kiran Ahuja is doing to help retain the best federal employees. Additionally, we'll be shedding light on where you can find job postings for the federal government and learning about the efforts being made to attract the next generation of employees.
00;01;28;03 - 00;01;50;29
Rob Trubia
And we'll talk about why it's never been a better time to consider a career in the federal government. Our guests are transforming their agencies with their vision and leadership. You won't want to miss this inspiring conversation. So join us as we uncover the stories and insights behind the federal agency delivering effective and efficient government. Get ready for another episode of GSA Does That!?
00;01;51;02 - 00;02;10;09
Rob Trubia
And don't forget, this podcast is available on all major platforms. So please be sure to follow. For more information about this episode and others, visit us online at gsa.gov/podcast. Okay. It's time to talk about the future workforce of the federal government. Robin and Kiran, thank you both so much for being here today. I'm really looking forward to our conversation
00;02;10;09 - 00;02;22;05
Rob Trubia
so let's jump right in. Kiran I think under your leadership, OPM is maybe more out front than ever. What are some of the things OPM is doing now to recruit and retain the very best talent?
00;02;22;07 - 00;02;45;07
Kiran Ahuja
Thanks for the question, Rob, And it's good to be here, I think, on the early, newer or new version of GSA podcast, I'm very excited to hear that all is going well. And as you build your listener base It looks like we're going to contribute to that with interesting conversation. I love how you framed it, that OPM is out and about.
00;02;45;07 - 00;03;12;03
Kiran Ahuja
We very much have worked to build our profile as an organization. Certainly a lot of our work is happening in and around the government supporting our partner agencies, but we also know, being the largest workforce in the country at 2.2 million, and that's what we're clocking at right now. It's, we know that we can have a huge impact if we have federal employees and literally every single county in this country
00;03;12;03 - 00;03;44;08
Kiran Ahuja
and 85% of our workforce, that's outside of Washington, D.C.. So it's important about how we think about really drawing the best and brightest, the top talent across the country, those who want to commit themselves to the incredible mission here in the federal government. I will say that first, you know, we're thinking about kind of the way we think about this in really three phases, which is like the front door about attracting the best talent, how we're managing kind of in the middle, which is like the policies and processes.
00;03;44;11 - 00;04;09;27
Kiran Ahuja
And then at the end, how are we really thinking about keeping a lot of these great individuals in government? I will say on the front end, we're revamping our website right now. And so we're creating these personas where if you're interested as as as a a potential federal employee, you can find all the information on our website, making it a lot more streamlined to to get that information as a potential new federal employee,
00;04;09;27 - 00;04;39;17
Kiran Ahuja
and certainly if you're already in the federal government making sure that you understand all the great benefits that it path as a federal employee in reminding you of that, making sure you're taking advantage of those things. I will say on kind of the front door aspect of recruitment USA jobs that's been doing a lot of upgrades. We've got actually specific talent portals focused on the bipartisan infrastructure law, the infrastructure work that's happening across this country, and a lot of jobs that we're trying to bring in to the federal government.
00;04;39;17 - 00;05;15;10
Kiran Ahuja
We've got job portals focused on STEM and also national security, as well as early career talent. So making it a lot easier to find the jobs that interest you by focusing on those search terms and on those portals where you can just see all those jobs in one place. The middle piece, as I think about it, is how are they just making the process incredibly easier and more functional about once you've applied like how we move you through. And one of those things is what we call pool hiring actions, So, multi agency hiring actions.
00;05;15;13 - 00;05;35;12
Kiran Ahuja
You know, we can hire at scale and we haven't, and we're investing in that work. GSA actually, Robin knows this was really out in front and during one of our first full hirings, because, listen, if you're interested in contracting in government, you'll think about GSA. GSA is going to attract probably, you know, really the top talent in that area.
00;05;35;12 - 00;05;56;20
Kiran Ahuja
All of us are vying for the kind of talent that they would attract. And so, you know, having GSA as an agency lead out, initiate that hiring action. But, you know, there's a lot of potential candidates on that certificate and on that list. They may not be able to hire all of them. Why not share that with the rest of the federal government?
00;05;56;21 - 00;06;16;09
Kiran Ahuja
So we want to start doing that with a lot of credible positions. And now we are certainly moving forward with that. We're also pushing agencies to start to look at skills based hiring and focus on skills. You know, it doesn't matter like what college you went to or where you got your experience, but the fact is you've gained that experience and how can we utilize that?
00;06;16;09 - 00;06;45;09
Kiran Ahuja
And certainly in the tech talent space, we've seen that sector as a leader and really being able to set the tone for how we need to apply that across the federal government. And then finally, I'll just say, because we can have a conversation about this, when I think about kind of the end piece of this is, everything we can do to keep the talent that we have and really making the case about the great benefits packages that, that federal employees have,
00;06;45;11 - 00;07;17;16
Kiran Ahuja
there's a real focus right now on employee engagement. You know, we've got a lot of shifts happening in the workplace. So where we're taking a real data driven approach with our Federal Employee Viewpoint survey to take that and look at it and get agencies to really utilize that information. And then, then think about ways to really address maybe some of the challenges that they have in their organization to show that they're listening to their employees and they want them to want to make sure that there's an important feedback loop there.
00;07;17;16 - 00;07;31;06
Kiran Ahuja
And that, again, not every place is going to be heading it right every single time. But, you know, as long as there's a commitment to work on those issues, I think is important and that communication’s important. So let me stop there and hand it back to you, Rob
00;07;31;09 - 00;07;45;05
Rob Trubia
Really interesting information. I think I want to touch on a few things that you mentioned. One was the bulk hiring, so has that started or is it not? I know Robin is probably pretty, Robin, are you, what are you doing with bulk hiring? Is that a part? Is that just with OPM or does just GSA
00;07;45;05 - 00;07;45;18
Rob Trubia
do that?
00;07;45;18 - 00;08;09;05
Robin Carnahan
Yeah. Look, we're trying to make hiring easier and getting people into the government workforce is a high priority for everyone. We really appreciate the partnership with Kiran and her team at OPM to do this. You know, traditionally there have been lots of hoops you have to jump through. And typically, if you have somebody who you need a building manager, you need a contracting officer.
00;08;09;07 - 00;08;34;29
Robin Carnahan
Each division might put out their own, you know, job description and say what they need when in fact, we have dozens or, you know, a hundred people that we need for those kinds of jobs across GSA. And so one of the things we're trying to do is do these hiring pools, right? So that we can talk about if you're a contracting officer, there are lots of different opportunities at GSA,
00;08;34;29 - 00;08;57;22
Robin Carnahan
you don't have to apply for each one of them individually, and once you get into the pool, not only can people at different in different parts of GSA select off of that, but maybe people at other agencies can as well. So we could do that. It's a much quicker way both for the applicants and a lot easier for them, but it's also easier for agencies to get qualified folks in the government faster.
00;08;57;29 - 00;08;59;28
Rob Trubia
Is that imminent? Is that coming?
00;09;00;04 - 00;09;05;24
Robin Carnahan
Yeah, we're doing that in a couple of areas already. And Kiran, you want to talk about a few specific job categories?
00;09;05;27 - 00;09;39;27
Kiran Ahuja
Yeah, it's already underway, Rob, it’s well underway where we've done, you know, Robin mentioned, I mentioned earlier, you know, we let out on some of the hiring that was spearheaded, spearheaded by GSA in a focus on contract specialists. We've also done full hiring actions for human resource specialists. We are working on program or project management for data analysts. We're taking some of those jobs that we know exist across all these different agencies and really trying to maximize both the efficiency for the HR
00;09;39;28 - 00;10;13;02
Kiran Ahuja
professionals, right? Because it takes away the burden of doing a job announcement for every single one of these jobs as well as the burden on the applicant. So you have an opportunity to apply at one time to multiple jobs across the federal government. If you are interested in being a project manager or a data analyst and maybe you don't have, you know, the strong desire to be in this one agency, certainly that may be true for some folks, but if you want to do that kind of work, there are multiple opportunities to have to be able to have that experience by going through this full hiring action.
00;10;13;02 - 00;10;26;26
Kiran Ahuja
So we make it clear in the job announcement, you know, that this will be something that, you know, that will be shared in opportunities across various agencies that are participating in the pool of hiring. Robin, I don't know if there's anything else that you all are planning at GSA?
00;10;26;29 - 00;10;52;17
Robin Carnahan
Yeah, there's one in particular that we just, I think wrapped up, and that's around designers and, and content people. So if you think about so much more of people's interaction with government these days is online and whether that's through a website on their computer or whether that's on your telephone, and we need to have folks who are good at designing those processes and also the content, right?
00;10;52;17 - 00;11;14;10
Robin Carnahan
It turns out that the language that you use can make it easy or hard to be able to navigate that thing. So we just recently wrapped that up and, and hired a group of people that were going to be deployed at different places around GSA but did that at one time. So that's a great example of, as Kiran said, sort of skill sets that we know we need in a lot of places,
00;11;14;18 - 00;11;20;02
Robin Carnahan
and we're just trying to get folks who've got those skills to make it easy for them to say “yes” to joining government.
00;11;20;05 - 00;11;54;12
Kiran Ahuja
And Rob, I was going to say that, you know, I think what Robin's pointing out also is that, you know, in these larger agencies, you can do that within your agency. And that's that's like efficient in that regard or we can take it and do it across government. And again, I think it is, we're always looking for agencies who are willing to step up like GSA and say we were willing to share our job list, our our candidate star search, as we call it, in the federal government and and willing to we're we're always looking for those agencies to kind of volunteer and say we'd love to be able to, one, be out there in
00;11;54;12 - 00;12;23;24
Kiran Ahuja
the lead because we know we can attract, let's say, for DHS, cybersecurity. They're going to, you know, be a huge draw for those individuals who want to do that kind of work. But cybersecurity specialists are needed all across government, and we need that talent. And so this is the way we want to maximize and use agencies that are already out in a very competitive way, maybe with other agencies, and ask them to step forward so we can use, we can share that candidate list across the federal government.
00;12;23;28 - 00;12;40;12
Rob Trubia
It sounds like there's more opportunity than ever with the federal government, and it really does, it's just so critical for our country. You know, as the largest employer in the country, the federal government has had an historical role in building the middle class. I'm curious, Kiran, do you think that's still relevant today?
00;12;40;15 - 00;13;13;24
Kiran Ahuja
Absolutely. You know, we talk about we want every federal job to be a good job, and that means obviously pays a living wage or even better, you know, we want to continue to stay competitive. So even though we know we do have challenges around competing, around pay, it is a, it is a job that we seek to make sure that we can, we can incorporate other benefits that we know are important to, you know, our workforce or those who want to come into the federal government.
00;13;13;25 - 00;13;35;09
Kiran Ahuja
We've talked, we mentioned earlier, talked earlier about, I do think that the fact that you can do meaningful, mission oriented work in the federal government is a real draw for us as well as the benefits package that we provide. So I think we see it in a very holistic fashion as well as the workplace flexibility and the work life balance.
00;13;35;09 - 00;14;02;14
Kiran Ahuja
I think we're seeing post-pandemic or even all that we've experienced through the pandemic, that it's a mix of things that we want when we think about what it means to have a fulfilling job. What does it mean to be supporting people, to live prosperously and to, to feel that they're economically secure? And also, you know, there is work that we're doing around really improving pay in the federal government.
00;14;02;14 - 00;14;28;23
Kiran Ahuja
You know, we don't have OMB here joining us, but they've been a really big champion and proponent and increasing pay over the past couple of years to ensure that we can really close that pay gap in certain instances. And I would say for OPM, we're working specifically with agencies and really trying to push out and publicize really that agencies can come to us, that they want to create special pay rates for specific positions or specific geographic areas.
00;14;28;23 - 00;14;58;17
Kiran Ahuja
So really trying to make sure folks have the tools as well as there's recruitment and retention incentives. So there's really a whole toolbox of how we want to think about supporting our workforce and retaining them, certainly recruiting them. But again, I think, you know, we want to live and continue to really double down on the idea that the federal government for a long time has been an organization that has put a lot of support and stock and what it means to support its workforce.
00;14;58;24 - 00;15;18;06
Kiran Ahuja
I mean, if you think about it, we created a pathway for the middle class in the African-American community, in many communities across this country and other communities of color. And I think it's important because those then create opportunities for multiple generations. And then we actually see many people who have had parents who worked in the federal government that they themselves came back in.
00;15;18;08 - 00;15;26;10
Kiran Ahuja
So the federal government saw that it's like, wow, I saw what my parents gained from that experience. I also want to be able to have a similar experience.
00;15;26;13 - 00;15;48;11
Rob Trubia
And I like what you said, that we want people to understand it's a good job. Not every job out there is a good job. And I think the jobs that the federal government offers are good jobs. They do pay well. They do have great benefits and they can be career jobs. And I think one of the most interesting and fun things about working for the federal government, in my opinion, is the ability to move around in your career to do different things and not go backwards.
00;15;48;11 - 00;16;01;24
Rob Trubia
You actually are, continue to move forward, with your pay, with your opportunities, with your responsibility, and move along these different agencies. And, Robin, you lead an agency that executes billions of dollars. How do you think federal investments contribute to the middle class American?
00;16;01;27 - 00;16;31;19
Robin Carnahan
Yeah. So that's the other side of the coin. Like obviously we need, we need a lot of talent in the government to be able to deliver for the American people and in the ways that they expect. And your point about it being a stable career and a place to really grow, I think nowadays is particularly compelling for people because there's a lot of economic uncertainty and in the government you can continue to grow those skills and like, move within your own agency or other agencies.
00;16;31;19 - 00;16;56;22
Robin Carnahan
And so I think that was a useful way to bring up. But you ask about, like the federal government's role in really developing and strengthening the middle class, and I think it's something, look, President Biden talks about it all the time. This is a thing that really drives and compels him in his public service, and that's to build a stronger economy, to help families be able to have pathways into the middle class.
00;16;56;25 - 00;17;22;02
Robin Carnahan
And when he talks about investing in America's agendas and the things we're doing with the bipartisan infrastructure, the Inflation Reduction Act, and those investments are about creating good jobs, jobs that you can get that are going to take care of your family, that don't necessarily need a college degree. And so we think about GSA's work and the investments that we're making.
00;17;22;04 - 00;17;51;16
Robin Carnahan
We've got about almost three and a half billion dollars that we're putting into infrastructure investments on the northern and southern borders. And the jobs that that creates in these communities are really significant. They're good working jobs. They are often trade, building trades and others. And we are looking for union, you know, level wages and prevailing wages and all of these projects that really make a difference for these families.
00;17;51;16 - 00;18;24;03
Robin Carnahan
And so that's a thing we're doing. And we've got another over $3 billion for sustainability investments in those. Again, those are creating jobs in communities. Those are helping innovation in America with the green energy economy. And so we're pretty excited about sort of the ripple effect, frankly, of what, what we're able to do at GSA by the work we do with infrastructure to create good paying jobs and middle class pathways all across the country.
00;18;24;09 - 00;18;43;14
Rob Trubia
We think about creating new jobs. We need young people to fill them. We need the next generation. I was very, it was kind of shocking really, I saw that there's a real disproportionate amount of federal employees that are, really they're in their fifties, maybe as many as 80%, maybe as few as 8 to 10% that are under age 30.
00;18;43;17 - 00;18;46;08
Rob Trubia
Kiran, what are you doing to attract the next generation?
00;18;46;10 - 00;19;05;23
Kiran Ahuja
I know those numbers are really shocking. I know we also say that, you know, less than 7% of our entire workforce is under the age of 30 and you have less than 10%. But that numbers stay a little bit lower than that. And I am actually part of that 80%. So I'll just put that out there right now. I’m in my in my fifties so,
00;19;05;23 - 00;19;33;21
Kiran Ahuja
we're the group that predominates, but we also want to have that, that diversity of experience. And there's a lot that we are doing in this arena and, and working with Robin and others because they've got some great programs underway as well. But I think overall, you know, we've tried to set the tone and across federal government that we need to prioritize early career talent and hiring and recruiting those individuals.
00;19;33;25 - 00;20;08;12
Kiran Ahuja
We issued a policy a number of months back OPM and OMB are encouraging agencies to to focus on early career talent and that there's specific tennents that they should follow as far as how they think about recruitment and also just the development of interns, like really taking time to create programs that give them the right experience that that that gives the stickiness of them wanting to come back in as well as, you know, doing as much as we can to to go out there and recruit these individuals.
00;20;08;12 - 00;20;32;00
Kiran Ahuja
I mentioned to you kind of that front door when we were talking overall recruitment, we've got an internship portal where we coalesced all the internship opportunities across the federal government continuing to encourage people to go and use that portal and to find the experience that certainly agencies are doing if they have separate programs, are also doing separate recruitment.
00;20;32;00 - 00;20;54;20
Kiran Ahuja
And so there's lots of different places that individuals can look. If they're interested in foreign affairs, they can go to the Department of State or U.S., AID, or if they're interested specifically in cybersecurity. Well, they frankly can get every agency. There's lots of great opportunities for that kind of talent, those skill sets that we need in the federal government.
00;20;54;22 - 00;21;14;09
Kiran Ahuja
I will say that we are also making changes to our policies to just make it a lot easier to bring in those individuals and create a pathway of what we call conversion to a permanent employment in the federal government. What I think is really great and you were talking about the middle class and if we think about the early career talent,
00;21;14;09 - 00;21;39;29
Kiran Ahuja
what I also think that's another interesting statistic is that about 50% of our early, or 50% of individuals in colleges are in community colleges. Right? So 50% of that student body. So, you know, I think oftentimes we have, we have this, we have this idea of what a college student looks like. And, and again, it could be, you could be changing careers, middle of your career,
00;21;39;29 - 00;22;09;02
Kiran Ahuja
you could be, you know, a young parent, you could be, you know, it could be whatever stage of life. Certainly kind of early, you know, coming out of high school and going directly into college. There's an opportunity to come into the federal government and get a good paying job while you're in college. So we have direct hire authorities now that allow, you know, an individual to be paid almost $70,000, you know, working in the federal government while you're going to school, whether, you know, through an internship program and the hours that you work.
00;22;09;02 - 00;22;27;04
Kiran Ahuja
So I think we were keeping that in mind of what it means to draw those individuals in, to give them the experience. I definitely think that the younger generation cares about mission and kind of having meaningful work, and we think, for government, we win on mission every single time. And so that's the message we're trying to get out there.
00;22;27;06 - 00;23;05;13
Robin Carnahan
Don't forget to mention, Kiran, at least at GSA, we have loan forgiveness for I mean, student forgiveness programs as well. And so those are really significant for when we talk about the benefits of coming to work in the federal government or early career people, that is a big deal to get your student loans dealt with. I would say on this topic that the early career thing is so exciting to me because as I talk with leaders across GSA, a huge percentage of our top leadership at GSA started out in some internship or fellowship program and have just spent their career at GSA.
00;23;05;13 - 00;23;15;21
Robin Carnahan
And so just sort of goes back to, if we can, if we can keep that pipeline filled, we are going to have wonderful talent with the agency for a long time.
00;23;15;25 - 00;23;38;24
Rob Trubia
And we, I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear that you can intern with the federal government with a different, with agencies. So much so it's so important and understand people can go to intern.usajobs.gov, that's, that's really helpful that gets you right to where you need to be. I think the executive producer of this podcast started as an intern 20 something years ago, so that's exciting.
00;23;39;02 - 00;23;50;15
Rob Trubia
Robin, I think you were just in San Francisco talking with technologists and tech leaders, probably a lot of them that are very young. I'm curious, did you get any additional insights into what it takes to hire technologists in today's world?
00;23;50;19 - 00;24;16;28
Robin Carnahan
Yeah, it's a great question, that the folks who came to that session were actually across the board. Some were earlier career and some had, had been in the tech world for a while. It was so interesting to me, particularly about tech talent is, these folks tend to want to work on difficult problems, number one, and they also tend to focus on things that have a big impact.
00;24;17;00 - 00;24;43;23
Robin Carnahan
That's exciting for people in the technology space. And it just turns out in government we have very narrow problems, and they have a huge, and what we do has a huge impact. So back to what Kieran said about mission. I think that a lot of, a lot of times these days as people, particularly post-pandemic, have spent time thinking about how they want to spend time in their life and they want to work on something that's bigger than themselves.
00;24;43;23 - 00;25;00;25
Robin Carnahan
They want to work on something that's more important than just selling another thing to somebody that could have an impact and improve their community. And so government is really the best place to do that. And so when I talk to technologists, that's usually my pitch is like, if you want to have an impact, here's the things we do.
00;25;00;28 - 00;25;19;10
Robin Carnahan
And so that's compelling for folks. So that's number one I think we do when on mission. But what we have to do is make it easier for them to say yes, or I always say it's like, how do we make it easy to say yes? Somebody who is, I say, government-curious, they want to figure out if, in fact, this is something that could work for them.
00;25;19;12 - 00;25;43;13
Robin Carnahan
We need to make it easy for them to test that out. And so sometimes that's tours of duty that you can get brought in for two years or four years or eight years in a relatively streamlined way. Sometimes it's, you know, it's a career position, sometimes it's an internship. We have fellowships, one called the U.S. Digital Corps at GSA that we stood up, which is for early career challenge.
00;25;43;14 - 00;25;59;14
Robin Carnahan
We have another thing called the Presidential Innovation Fellows, and those are term limited appointments we often love. They stay in government, but it's an easy onramp, so we're always thinking about those. And I know Kiran, and in other parts, folks across the government have similar things.
00;25;59;19 - 00;26;08;09
Rob Trubia
Kiran, is the stem.usajobs and the tech.usajobs, what's that yielding? Is it, has it been successful just to get more technologists to apply?
00;26;08;12 - 00;26;39;17
Kiran Ahuja
That's a good question. We just created that talent portal. So it's a little too soon to say, Rob, on how we’re doing, but we certainly are collecting the analytics in real time. It wasn't a response to, you know, we started this effort, you know, really early on, probably if I think about it, you know, the real impetus was when the bipartisan infrastructure law passed and of course, it was a historic investment in this country of, of rebuilding the infrastructure across the country.
00;26;39;17 - 00;26;58;14
Kiran Ahuja
And, and what's interesting is when that law passed, even before that, I had all the senior leaders in these agencies like coming to OPM a little bit with their hair on fire because they knew what it was going to take to actually, they needed to build entire programs in their agencies. They needed to hire a ton of people.
00;26;58;14 - 00;27;20;25
Kiran Ahuja
And so, I mean, this was like a cross-government effort that was happening inside. Like not only just like the resources that are going out of, outside of government, the opportunity to create really good jobs outside of government, as well as in state and local government or, you know, the different sectors like the manufacturing sector and the construction industry. But how are we going to do that?
00;27;21;01 - 00;27;38;23
Kiran Ahuja
How are we going to make sure that we accomplish what we need to with this new law? And so that's where we started thinking, okay, we know all these agencies are going to be listing this jobs and opportunities and we want to really create kind of a funnel and make sure that folks can find those easily. And so that's what we did.
00;27;38;23 - 00;28;07;18
Kiran Ahuja
And we kind of then riffed on that idea and said, Well, you know what? We need to do that for tech talent. We need to do that for early career talent. We need to do that on STEM in particular, that does include positions focused on the bipartisan infrastructure law, but also STEM opportunities across the federal government. And it's been a great partnership actually with, with OSTP out of the White House because they're very interested in ensuring that we're getting top talent in these areas.
00;28;07;23 - 00;28;32;12
Kiran Ahuja
I will say just as a footnote, I mean, it's a big footnote, is that we are really challenged and competing in this area in the federal government. And certainly there's a part of highlighting these jobs and making sure people know about them, but also, you know, what we can do around pay flexibilities within these agencies to allow them to be able to compete.
00;28;32;15 - 00;28;52;15
Kiran Ahuja
But I think Robin's point also is really critical here is that when we're having these conversations where we know these are hard to recruit candidates because they're being, they have opportunities in lots of different places, is talking about this idea, the kind and the kind and scale of impact you can have and the challenges that are really tough.
00;28;52;16 - 00;29;13;05
Kiran Ahuja
You know, I think people, you know, there's a lot of psychology and research around this that people want to, they find work meaningful when it's like they're working on these hard challenges, that they're seeing that there is a path forward and there's, there's a space for innovation and and a real desire and culture when those organizations to to bring folks together to tackle this kind of problems.
00;29;13;09 - 00;29;29;25
Rob Trubia
Yeah. And I think, you know, it's been mentioned in this podcast that, you know, this generation is very much mission focused. And I think we're hoping that they'll be thinking about the federal government. Like you said, we win on mission every time. I mean, you're affecting your community, you're affecting your state, your nation, your neighbors. So there’s an opportunity there.
00;29;30;00 - 00;29;48;02
Rob Trubia
You know, I want to talk about diversity a little bit, like we talk about the middle class, we're talking about diversity, just the federal government being. really leading the way. And I know that is a priority of this administration. Robin, how are you keeping diversity a priority inside GSA when it comes to hiring?
00;29;48;07 - 00;30;21;07
Robin Carnahan
Yeah, it's a great question. And look, the bottom line is. it's government is here to work for everyone. It works best for everyone if we have folks who understand the experiences of all Americans that are helping institute programs for all of these Americans. So like everything about that makes sense. And so not only that, but we've also seen every study from whether it's the government or commercial businesses, that the more diverse your workforce is, the stronger your results are.
00;30;21;07 - 00;30;59;04
Robin Carnahan
So for every reason, it makes sense. So what we're trying to do is be very intentional about reaching out to communities across the country. We recruit heavily at HBC News, for example, but we also want to have pathways within the organization for people to continue to, to grow and and be challenged in their careers. So for me, it really is just about intentionality and understanding that we're stronger when we have a diverse workforce and just be thoughtful about how we're going to both go out and recruit, but also retain a diverse workforce and talent.
00;30;59;04 - 00;31;04;16
Rob Trubia
And how about that with the big picture at OPM, diversity in hiring, how is that a priority for OPM?
00;31;04;21 - 00;31;38;23
Kiran Ahuja
Absolutely. So I think, like what Robin said, is a perfect example. If I just want to make this one point here is that the tone is set at the top. This president, you know, issued an executive order that focused on how we really support principles around diversity, equity and inclusion, accessibility and what those activities and efforts should look like and requiring agencies to put together a strategic plan from not only what Robin talked about, which is kind of on the recruitment side, but also what are you doing to retain and really support that development within your organization.
00;31;38;29 - 00;32;02;28
Kiran Ahuja
But first and foremost, kind of in this area, like what Robin was sharing, it's like the tone is set at the top. You know, the leadership is committed to ensuring that you have diverse voices and experiences because, you know, you just will be a better business, a better organization, because you can understand the breadth of that experience to know how to really focus on what your customers need.
00;32;02;28 - 00;32;25;10
Kiran Ahuja
And the fact is your customers are diverse. So, you need to have those experiences inside of your organization. I will say a lot of the things that we've been talking about around hiring, we want to focus on early career talent, and we think about our demographics within our country. I mean, all of this is part and parcel of how we think about building the diversity in the federal government.
00;32;25;10 - 00;32;48;29
Kiran Ahuja
And and so we're thinking about that across the board. But certainly when it comes to early career talent and, and focusing on minority serving institutions, HBC is the community colleges across the country. We're seeing a major uptick among, among agencies doing this level of recruitment. I, in many ways I've seen it. It's really impressive.
00;32;49;02 - 00;33;26;23
Kiran Ahuja
And then finally, I'll say, you know, a big focus for OPM because we are the agency that really is driving this initiative across the federal government is, we support a chief diversity officer counsel. The importance of establishing chief diversity officers within your organization, which I know GSA has as well, OPM, a number of other agencies, how those individuals place to really ensure and at senior levels so that they can do a lot of that work and ensure that whatever Robin or other leaders are espousing and wanting to achieve within their organization, that it is that it's coordinated across the organization.
00;33;26;26 - 00;33;43;18
Rob Trubia
And we're talking a lot about recruitment. And like, you know, I'm glad we are, but I want to talk a little bit about retention as well. And Robin, turning to you, you know, you you get out there, you see really meet thousands of GSA employees every year. What do you hear from them? Why do they stay with the federal government?
00;33;43;18 - 00;33;45;20
Rob Trubia
And specifically, why do they stay with GSA?
00;33;45;25 - 00;34;14;21
Robin Carnahan
Yeah, it's true, because I always do ask that question like, how did you get here and what have you. why are you still here? And it is remarkable to me how uniform the answers are. And it really is about the ability to make a difference. And so to have an impact, to be in an organization where their talents are being put to use for something that matters for the country and motivates them personally.
00;34;14;24 - 00;34;36;15
Robin Carnahan
But also, I think it's about culture and that we have a culture at GSA that values empowering our employees. And that's a thing that is, that is an important value for all of us, is to, to empower people to do their best work on behalf of the American people and to give them opportunities to continue to grow and serve.
00;34;36;15 - 00;34;57;14
Robin Carnahan
And, you know, I met somebody the other day and she, she'd been in the government for 40 years. She was about to retire and she started it, you know, the National Gallery of Art and went to the Treasury, went to VA, but came to GSA and just loved it because she was able to really grow and find new areas where she could put her talents to work.
00;34;57;17 - 00;35;26;12
Robin Carnahan
And I think that, that culture of growth is important, but I think also the culture of, for us, we're very, very customer focused. Like that's what drives us at GSA is we want to figure out how to help our agencies, you know, deliver on their missions and save money for the American people. Everyone gets that. And so I think knowing kind of what our purpose is, being driven by that and then having opportunities is, is kind of what it takes.
00;35;26;14 - 00;35;51;11
Robin Carnahan
None of that happens by accident. And frankly, it doesn't, I don't think, happen because of people like me or Kiran who show up every, you know, whatever number of years and change out. It happens because of the culture of the organization, people that were there. And it's our jobs when we're here as, as being leaders with the times we are, to be able to support that and really unblock things and help that continue.
00;35;51;13 - 00;36;05;07
Rob Trubia
So, culture is, it's everything at every organization, every company and, are you saying, Robin, that the culture in GSA is, is about customer service, but customer service even internally, Is that what your about, that too?
00;36;05;12 - 00;36;26;18
Robin Carnahan
I mean, that, that, I think, I think people are very respectful of each other. They know that their job is to to support customers. But internally they know there are plenty of people who have internal customers as well as external customers. And so when we can empower our people to do their best work, that means we're going to get better results for the American people.
00;36;26;18 - 00;36;46;17
Robin Carnahan
And I and I just have been very impressed at GSA that that is an ethos that goes through every single level of the organization. And for me, that's exciting because I'm somebody who's been in and out of government through my career. I really think that government is a place to make a difference. And that's why I want to be at GSA.
00;36;46;17 - 00;36;51;15
Robin Carnahan
I want to be in government, but to be surrounded by people who share that is fantastic.
00;36;51;15 - 00;36;58;27
Rob Trubia
I’ve heard that GSA is maybe in the top five of the best agencies to work for in the government in the last couple of years. You think that culture is a big part of that?
00;36;58;29 - 00;37;10;29
Robin Carnahan
I do. I'm very competitive. I want us to get better than just the top five. But that's not that's, that's the result of, of doing the right work. And we're going to continue to do that.
00;37;11;05 - 00;37;29;01
Rob Trubia
Kiran, can you talk a little bit about USA Jobs? I think, you know, people would understand, it's a website you can go to and find job listings. But I didn't even know that 1996 it started, that was a little while ago. So why should somebody go to USA Jobs today? What are they going to find there? What's the best way to make use of it?
00;37;29;03 - 00;37;50;29
Kiran Ahuja
I appreciate that question, Rob, and I think this particular website is, I think, ranks in the top ten of websites and the number of hits that that this particular site gets. And we have, you know, over 30,000 jobs that are listed on USA Jobs that are open each day, which is just I mean, the scale is just incredible.
00;37;51;01 - 00;38;16;21
Kiran Ahuja
And so I think, again, if you're a candidate, if your’re a perspective candidate, it could feel slightly overwhelming. And so I think that's why we've created these portals that I mentioned, about really being able to hone your search. But a couple other things I wanted to mention that are happening that I think are important is that, we've had this feature on USA Jobs, but it is actually, you know, downloading your resume and having it sit on our website,
00;38;16;21 - 00;38;36;15
Kiran Ahuja
and also making sure that it can be searchable, because we are encouraging more and more agencies to use that opportunity to go to particular lists where they can kind of do more directed outreach with candidates that have the background for a particular job that they're recruiting for. So wanted, Yes, you're, you're you're coming to that website,
00;38;36;15 - 00;38;58;26
Kiran Ahuja
you're looking for opportunities. But there's also a bit of the static passive role that you can play, which is like make yourself known and more of the work that we're doing inside around robust recruitment and best practices. One of those is encouraging agencies to kind of mine those resumes and do more targeted outreach. So, so that's one piece of it.
00;38;58;26 - 00;39;27;17
Kiran Ahuja
I will say another effort that we have underway is that we talk a little bit about the bulk hiring. We talked about this pool of candidates, so, you know, we've now created, that's connected to USA Jobs, these agency talent pools. So where, you know, you've got these ready lists of individuals who like, participated in the hiring process,
00;39;27;19 - 00;39;52;07
Kiran Ahuja
either they're available still on a particular candidate list that an agency is making available, or there's opportunities just to see, Okay, they clearly are showing an interest in the federal government and here’s their background. And so again, another opportunity to be able to share with them maybe a new opportunity that's presenting itself at your agency that you want to make these candidates aware of.
00;39;52;08 - 00;40;09;17
Kiran Ahuja
So I think it's a mix that don't feel like, you know, you're coming in and doing this kind of one opportunity at a time, right? There's real opportunities for when you make yourself known and visible on USA Jobs, that there's stuff happening behind the scenes. And those are the things that we're trying to do around the upgrades for USA Jobs,
00;40;09;17 - 00;40;30;25
Kiran Ahuja
Rob, it’s like, I think initially when it started and you talked about kind of how long USA Jobs has been around, it was like a regular job board. I mean, now we're trying to really make it much more interactive. There's videos, there's other content to get you up to speed. And that's our way to say we know it may feel a bit overwhelming, but we really are trying to make it much more manageable and much more user friendly.
00;40;31;02 - 00;40;39;09
Rob Trubia
As we wrap up the conversation, Robin, I'm curious first from you, really, why do you think someone should go to USA Jobs, or why work for the federal government?
00;40;39;12 - 00;41;00;14
Robin Carnahan
Well, look, Rob, I'm going to be the biggest advocate for folks to be able to give back to their communities in their country. There are lots of ways to serve. One important way is to be of service as a public servant to, to the folks in your community. And being an employee of the federal government or state and local government is a terrific way to do that.
00;41;00;17 - 00;41;24;16
Robin Carnahan
I obviously am eager and always recruiting people to GSA. I think that we've got an opportunity to have a huge impact on lots of things because we're the agency that helps all the rest of government actually deliver. To me, it's kind of a service delivery business, right? In the end, there's a bunch of policy, but if you can't execute the policy effectively, it's as if it didn't matter.
00;41;24;19 - 00;41;53;24
Robin Carnahan
And so that's what is exciting to me about GSA. Is it really the place to go? If you are interested in getting results and seeing delivery and whether that's about, you know, whether you're a technologist, whether you're an architect and design buildings, whether you're into sustainability or how we do green energy economy. GSA is in the middle of all of those things, what electric vehicles and charging stations, and I can keep going on about this.
00;41;53;24 - 00;42;03;04
Robin Carnahan
But yeah, people should check out GSAgov, They should go to usajobs.gov and they should think about joining the government. There's really no better time.
00;42;03;08 - 00;42;19;22
Rob Trubia
You're in, If someone's out there listening, I want to work for GSA, I want to work for one of the top agencies in the country, say, they're a project manager and they're young. Maybe they're in their late twenties, maybe they’ve got a college degree. They're like, and they've got real experience. What would you tell them? Because it is, it's a little bit gnarly.
00;42;19;22 - 00;42;33;21
Rob Trubia
it's like, Wow, where do I start? So they want to be a project manager for GSA. Do they just go to USA Jobs and just start looking? or where, they upload the website and hope to get contacted? Do they, is there a recruiter to call? What's your advice?
00;42;33;23 - 00;42;54;19
Kiran Ahuja
Well, we definitely want folks to start at usajobs.gov, to take their time perusing, looking at all those opportunities. You know, maybe they're sitting in front of the TV or at a coffee shop. You know, it's a great way because there are a lot of opportunities there. And your point, Rob, and it can feel overwhelming there. We mentioned job portals or talent portals.
00;42;54;22 - 00;43;20;02
Kiran Ahuja
You can specifically look for STEM opportunities at different search terms. You can, you can find, you can even, we have a new feature where you just want to look for remote positions, you can, you can isolate the jobs in the government like, focused on remote positions. And one thing I like to say about, kind of thinking about the federal government is, literally, any occupation that you can think of you can find in the federal government.
00;43;20;04 - 00;43;45;11
Kiran Ahuja
So it's a place for everyone. And I think, Rob, I'm thinking about getting you on the payroll. I know you're over at GSA, but you're a great proponent. And, and the way you talked about, like in being the federal government, and the ability to move around and have that support, your career, think about it. I mean, you know, 2.2 million in the workforce, so many different agencies and departments and, and ways to continue to grow and experience, and try, try new things.
00;43;45;11 - 00;44;06;27
Kiran Ahuja
And that being said, you know, I am someone who has gone in and out of government, so I haven't stayed in government and I've always been drawn back to it because I always find it's the one place where I'm literally like, you know, in a space with so many people who are so driven and mission oriented, I truly have not had that kind of experience outside of government.
00;44;06;29 - 00;44;35;07
Kiran Ahuja
So I am biased in that way. But, you know, to what Rob was talking about, I mean, Robin was talking about earlier about the limits of term opportunities where and fellowships where you can come in and try it out. I think there's really you know, it's not one size fits all. There's really an opportunity for everyone. And I think our job at OPM has been how to make it easier for anyone out there to try to find the opportunity that speaks to them and feels meaningful.
00;44;35;10 - 00;44;49;06
Kiran Ahuja
We spend way too many hours in our jobs and it's important that we feel that we're giving back, that we're valued, that we're recognized for that work, which we really focus on here in the federal government. But we also feel like we're making a difference.
00;44;49;09 - 00;45;20;01
Rob Trubia
And we didn't talk a lot about this, but I'll close with this. I think we started with good jobs. These are good jobs. But I want to close with this: the work life balance. It's critical to a healthy life. And I really believe that the federal government is a place you can go and work hard, do very meaningful work, have a lot of responsibility, be paid well for it, yet still have a real opportunity to spend doing other things with the people that you care about and just time off.
00;45;20;04 - 00;45;39;12
Rob Trubia
So I hope people really look, I hope this podcast really does open some people's eyes in their minds that think, you know what, maybe I'm going to check it out. I'm going to go to USA Jobs, I'm going to take a look. And they might be pleasantly surprised. And like you said, there are just, it's limitless. If, if it's something you can do in the private sector, you certainly can do it in the federal government.
00;45;39;12 - 00;46;04;29
Rob Trubia
There's, that's, that's really clear. So, you know, thank you both. I know you are very busy people. I really appreciate your time. Thanks for this discussion. It's been a lot of fun for me. I think it's probably been really enlightening for others and I hope you both continue to have good success in reaching the next generation of federal employees and holding on to the very best and brightest that we already have and retaining them.
00;46;04;29 - 00;46;06;28
Rob Trubia
So thank you both.
00;46;07;00 - 00;46;09;02
Robin Carnahan
Thank you, Rob. Appreciate you joining us.
00;46;09;06 - 00;46;10;02
Kiran Ahuja
Yeah, thanks so much.
00;46;10;03 - 00;46;26;12
Rob Trubia
It certainly does seem more relevant than ever to talk about the ever changing nature of work and just how that affects the hiring and retaining of federal employees. So, listeners, I hope you've learned about the hiring process, gained valuable tips on how to land a federal job, and discover the numerous benefits that come with working for the federal government.
00;46;26;19 - 00;46;47;23
Rob Trubia
And for our listeners out there, Remember, as the largest employer in the nation, the federal government is on the lookout for individuals who can contribute to building the most effective and efficient government ever. The opportunities are boundless, and with the vision and leadership of individuals like our guests, the future of the federal workforce looks bright. In our next episode we’ll shift from the workforce to the workplace.
00;46;47;26 - 00;47;06;02
Rob Trubia
Joining me will be three of our top leaders in GSA, Katie Kell, Nina Albert and Sunny Hashmi to discuss what GSA is doing to create the most dynamic, customer centered and effective workplace of the future, and why workplace means so much more than where you do your job. We hope you follow this podcast so you never miss an episode.
00;47;06;07 - 00;47;25;01
Rob Trubia
And for more information, visit GSA.gov/podcast or to suggest a topic or guest, send us an email at GSA Does that at GSA.gov. I'm your host Rob Trubia. Our executive producer is the one and only Max Stempora. GSA Does That is a production of the U.S. General Services Administration Office of Strategic Communication.