In this fourth episode of GSA Does That!?, we talk to Kevin Powell, the director of GSA's Green Proving Ground (GPG). The episode sheds light on the program's revolutionary efforts in transforming federal buildings into testbeds for clean energy innovation.
Want to know more?
For a deeper dive into the Green Proving Ground, look at these resources to learn more.
"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.
For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.
In this fourth episode of GSA Does That!?, we talk to Kevin Powell, the director of GSA's Green Proving Ground (GPG). The episode sheds light on the program's revolutionary efforts in transforming federal buildings into testbeds for clean energy innovation.
Want to know more?
For a deeper dive into the Green Proving Ground, look at these resources to learn more.
"GSA Does That!?" is the U.S. General Services Administration's first agency-wide podcast, offering listeners an inside look into how GSA and its partners benefit the American people. Hosted by Rob Trubia, the podcast features interviews with GSA leaders, experts, partners, and customers, covering topics such as federal real estate, acquisitions, and technology. The title reflects many's surprise at the scope of GSA's impact. At the same time, the artwork pays homage to President Harry S. Truman, who established GSA in 1949 to improve government efficiency and save taxpayer money. Whether you're a policy wonk or just curious about government operations, you can join the listener community.
For more information about the show visit, gsa.gov/podcast.
00;00;06;20 - 00;00;32;03
Rob Trubia
Welcome to GSA Does That! the podcast that uncovers the stories behind the federal agency delivering effective and efficient government. I'm your host, Rob Trubia, and I'm excited to welcome you to our fourth episode. It's time to uncover the fascinating world of GSA's Green Proving Ground, the program that is a revolutionize in federal buildings by transforming them into testbeds for clean energy innovation.
00;00;32;05 - 00;00;53;13
Rob Trubia
Today, we have the great privilege of speaking with Kevin Powell, the director of the Green Proving Ground. Kevin will guide us through the groundbreaking advancements taking place within GPG, exploring how it is not only generating jobs and saving taxpayers money, but also contributing to a greener and healthier planet with the goal of creating a brighter future for generations to come.
00;00;54;05 - 00;01;17;04
Rob Trubia
Throughout this episode will uncover the most exciting and cutting edge technologies that are being put to the test at the green proving ground from smart buildings to electric vehicle supply, GSA is leading the charge toward a more sustainable future. But how did GSA become a leader in green energy? And what inspired the agency to take such bold steps towards transforming the federal landscape?
00;01;17;23 - 00;01;38;07
Rob Trubia
These questions and more will be answered as we talk with Kevin and get a peek behind the curtain of GSA's Green Proving Ground. Get ready to learn how GSA is working to create a cleaner and more sustainable future. Welcome to GSA Does That!? And remember, this podcast is available on all major platforms. So please be sure to subscribe.
00;01;38;10 - 00;01;48;07
Rob Trubia
For more information about the show or take a deeper dive into this episode or others, visit us at GSA.gov/podcast. Hello, Kevin.
00;01;48;09 - 00;01;48;29
Kevin Powell
Hello there.
00;01;49;20 - 00;02;01;23
Rob Trubia
Kevin, so glad you could join us today. Thanks for being here. So if you don't mind, tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from and how you ended up as the director of the Green Proving Ground.
00;02;01;26 - 00;02;35;17
Kevin Powell
Well, I began my career as an architect. I took my my first class in architecture in 1977 after I read a book, Architecture and Energy, which focused on the impact that buildings have on the environment. And that connection between buildings and energy has really been my North Star ever sense. I came to GSA, about 20 years ago, when I was offered a job as research director for the Public Buildings Service.
00;02;35;26 - 00;03;09;12
Kevin Powell
That was a lofty title. Huge scope. I was given the mandate to lead the agency's brain trust for innovation. I spent my first decade at the agency focused largely on workplace transformation, moving the agency from a sea of high wall cubicle the sort of space you think of the federal government as having to really particularly contemporary approach that we were really out front on.
00;03;09;14 - 00;03;32;18
Kevin Powell
Having wrapped that effort up. We formulated another program and years ago go validate a large crop of innovative green building technologies that promise a much more energy efficient, sustainable building, and that that is the green word being found.
00;03;33;11 - 00;03;37;22
Rob Trubia
Well, thanks for sharing that. You certainly seem like the right guy for the job now.
00;03;38;00 - 00;03;39;16
Kevin Powell
Thank you for that. Yeah.
00;03;40;05 - 00;04;03;24
Rob Trubia
It's always interesting to hear how people ended up where they are. So we're really excited to talk to you today. So this entire episode is about your program, The Green Proving Ground and I'm picturing it in my mind, this giant test lab, maybe the size of the Superdome. That's probably that's probably not accurate. So tell us, what is the green proving ground and what does the program aim to do?
00;04;03;24 - 00;04;05;28
Rob Trubia
And furthermore, why should we care?
00;04;06;08 - 00;04;37;14
Kevin Powell
Ah, well, I guess to understand the impact of the Green Cooking Route program, you have to understand the scale of GSA's real estate portfolio. We are the single largest U.S. or OLIO commercial on office space. There's more than 1800 federal buildings and more than 6500 properties that relate about private sector. That's nearly 400 million square feet of space.
00;04;37;24 - 00;05;10;29
Kevin Powell
That scale means two things that we have the ability to resurge rich next generation building technologies which have the greatest impact on our portfolio. And we have the market clout to really drive transformation to deliver those technologies. In the words of one of our former commissioners. We are the largest want engine in the commercial real estate world.
00;05;11;09 - 00;05;31;21
Rob Trubia
Okay, So I think I have a much better picture in my mind of of what this really is. I think you've in a touch on some high tech things for sure, maybe even a dash of sci fi. But, Kevin, tell us how these technologies that you're testing under these millions of square feet of space can enhance the lives of everyday Americans?
00;05;31;22 - 00;05;33;06
Rob Trubia
Where does that rubber meet the road?
00;05;34;00 - 00;06;08;08
Kevin Powell
Well, the the the rubber meets the road because buildings use about 39% of all energy in the United States, and they're responsible for more than a server of all of our carbon. So clearly impacting that has an enormous impact on what you know our nation's energy bill as well as the carbon emissions doing. And the the incredible thing is that it's a win for everybody.
00;06;08;21 - 00;06;37;15
Kevin Powell
Our administrator likes to say it's good to worry about people, planets, and of course, our bottom line, more efficient technologies obviously say my they obviously we do our best and in credibly enough, they make conditions typically better for the people in our buildings. So just to talk about our couple of things in terms of the kind of impact that we could see.
00;06;38;10 - 00;07;13;12
Kevin Powell
I'd say that one of the most impactful technologies that we evaluated is something called a mad loud shell. And Schiller's are by ruling two large office buildings, and that's the journey that once Chambers were pulling out there, the single most energy intensive piece of equipment. And they last a really long time, 40 years. And that means the chiller we're purchasing today is still going to be operating in 2050.
00;07;14;09 - 00;07;43;27
Kevin Powell
So when we first selected this maglev chiller on for validation, most of the field folks in GSA were really quite skeptical. This is a piece of equipment that is key to providing tenant comfort at last the long time. We want to make sure that it's going to deliver an airport. We like to stick with the tried and true on a maglev chiller, rethinks all of this.
00;07;43;27 - 00;08;15;26
Kevin Powell
It uses magnetic levitation. There's less than a Ayers distance between two pieces that are moving this piece that is moving and spinning at a speed or pans. And that speed, that's 2000 R.P.M., which is way beyond anything that ever could have happened before. So skeptical that this is really going to deliver in the long haul or actually deliver at all what we were able to do as chair and install these this large piece of equipment.
00;08;15;27 - 00;08;46;21
Kevin Powell
Our scale lets us make that kind of investment, demonstrate to everybody satisfaction that this really works well. Eel And then I this is, I think the key thing to what makes us successful. Yield stocks actually found that this thing not only delivered more than a third improvement in energy efficiency. So again, it's a it was a huge piece of equipment, very energy attempts there and can be a third better than the state of the fields is quite long thing.
00;08;47;05 - 00;09;16;15
Kevin Powell
But it also allowed operators to really manage the cooling plant in a way they never could have managed to reduce it much more dynamically, providing better comfort to anybody. And it was a lot quieter, so it was just more pleasant for that operator to be getting that machine. So what has happened is that over? That was one of the very first technologies we validated about a decade ago.
00;09;16;25 - 00;09;46;26
Kevin Powell
At this point, we deploy, I think about four underground in our portfolio and really driven the broader commercial real estate market that doesn't really have the scale to do this kind of research to see what we what we found, what we're doing and to be that soaring. And so essentially, as we would like to say, lead by example, to give them confidence in the same equipment.
00;09;47;03 - 00;10;14;22
Kevin Powell
Most would say at this point, you know, just a decade later, this tip of the spear technology is essentially dust practice for everyone. And I we couldn't have gotten to that place without starting with that own validation to develop the confidence that this actually was something that would deliver and we wouldn't get fired or having install.
00;10;14;22 - 00;10;41;01
Rob Trubia
That sounds like this is really the essence of what the green proving ground is, is testing those technologies, putting them into practice. This is what I think is so interesting and I love about this podcast is because when you stop and think about you're we're learning stuff that I had no idea particularly about what GSA is doing. If I think about the massive real estate portfolio that GSA has, and then you've just told us that buildings have just a huge effect on the environment.
00;10;41;01 - 00;11;00;28
Rob Trubia
I mean, it's huge. Their carbon emissions are massive throughout the world, throughout the United States. And then you take the largest real estate portfolio, which is GSA. That gives us an enormous amount of opportunity, but also responsibility. That's a really serious thing. That's that is a big deal. And some of the things you're discussing are are really neat.
00;11;00;28 - 00;11;17;13
Rob Trubia
I mean, it is a little touching on science fiction to certain degree, but it's really becoming a reality, which is interesting. With all of that said, this costs a lot of money. And, you know, we say in business, you have to, you know, spend money to make money for here it's we have to spend money to save money.
00;11;17;27 - 00;11;49;07
Rob Trubia
And with that said, I was doing some research, you know, obviously for this podcast. And I, I read just last early last month that Administrator Carnahan announced a $30 million investment in funds from the Inflation Reduction Act into GPG. What does $30 million mean towards the advancement of these goals? I mean, particularly the big goal that I read of obtaining a net zero emissions and every federal building by 2045, What does that $30 million do for those goals?
00;11;49;11 - 00;11;50;12
Rob Trubia
Achieving those goals?
00;11;50;26 - 00;12;27;05
Kevin Powell
Yeah, that's a great question. And first to just just to level set, that $30 million is focused on these field validations that we do. It represents about 1% or less than 1% of the more than $3 billion in the overall Inflation Reduction Act investment that GSA received. So the remaining 99% is going to be spent on purchasing and deploying the emerging and sustainable technologies that we previously validated, as well as investing in low carbon materials.
00;12;27;12 - 00;13;16;20
Kevin Powell
But to your point, that $30 million investment in GBG will really jumpstart our understanding of that technologies and and really that the stacks of technologies, the combinations that can deliver on what we would call the big hairy, audacious goals that the administration can set right. We're talking about a 65% reduction in our operational greenhouse gas emissions by 2030 just seven years out, a fully net zero carbon operation across our entire portfolio by 2045, and then a federal fleet of 100% zero emission vehicles.
00;13;16;20 - 00;13;41;05
Kevin Powell
That's 450,000 vehicles by 20 certain by. So these are huge goals and we need next generation technologies to deliver on them. And that's what this investments to do. It is definitely going to accelerate what we have done in the past. It represents a wonderful expansion.
00;13;41;24 - 00;14;01;09
Rob Trubia
Yeah, and that's exciting because when you're looking out at 2045, I mean, it's a long ways, but you've got to be able to mark your progress towards getting there. I mean, when you think about that big goal of achieving net zero by 2045, I mean that is just a little over 20 years from now. For some of our listeners that might sound like forever.
00;14;01;15 - 00;14;13;01
Rob Trubia
For others, it might sound like it's just around the corner. So I'm curious, Kevin, how do you how do you know you're on track to achieve sustainable federal buildings everywhere and in really just over 20 years?
00;14;13;09 - 00;14;39;20
Kevin Powell
Well, there is that interim goal and 65% reduction by 2030, which is just seven years out. There is a glide path that we're putting together our those listeners that would think that 20 years is a long time. Again, when we just go back to that example. Shiller That's going to be lasting for 30 years. You can see that what you're investing in today is going to be foundational to where we're going at in 20 years.
00;14;40;00 - 00;15;17;04
Kevin Powell
In the world of buildings, 20 years is not very long, particularly given the time horizon it takes to sexualize a project bond debt and then execute. This is real sweat and pushing to get there. It's not going to happen in Century without that kind of help with that. With that said, there's there's a slide I actually saw presented at a conference and it it showed the essentially Easter day parade in 1900.
00;15;17;19 - 00;15;49;28
Kevin Powell
And then on 1913 and in 1900 when there was one, as they were to calendar time, horseless carriage, everything, milestones and sweet horses and carriage. 1913 there was one horse and buggy and a sea of cars. So the speed of change can be remarkable as vast wonders, motivation and technology and opportunity.
00;15;50;17 - 00;15;55;26
Rob Trubia
That's pretty fascinating. Let me ask a question. How often is the government building a new building?
00;15;56;03 - 00;16;25;11
Kevin Powell
Well, that that's also, I think, kind of important. So if we think about these these assets, like the 1500 of these assets right now, we're likely to have many in those same 1800 assets in 2014 by the government is the ultimate. And by and or build and hold cases where constructing maybe for building this year.
00;16;25;17 - 00;16;26;00
Rob Trubia
Okay.
00;16;26;09 - 00;16;33;05
Kevin Powell
Well you think about four buildings a year but 1500 that you well on you can see where the mass scale.
00;16;33;05 - 00;16;53;22
Rob Trubia
Yeah and I'm sure you know when you're putting new technology to new buildings, that's probably not really easy. But that's got to be a lot easier than putting new technology into old buildings. And and we're talking about a lot of old buildings. So what are the what are the big challenges when you're taking an older building and you're basically putting brand new technology into that?
00;16;53;29 - 00;16;56;13
Rob Trubia
What kind of challenges how do you how do you meet those challenges?
00;16;56;18 - 00;17;27;03
Kevin Powell
So first of all, to your point, it is 100% true that it is easy to start with a blank sheet of paper and build out something that is staying on the march. And it's a whole nother saying to take essentially a wrapper. Well, and potentially a historic building, which it needs to comply with all of the requirements of historic buildings and transform that building.
00;17;27;15 - 00;17;58;05
Kevin Powell
What's super exciting to me is that there's quite a number of technologies that are making that a lot easier. So if we're synching, for example, this is something that's in our program right now that we are pretty, pretty optimistic about its potential. Our windows are the greatest source of energy, moss and nails, right? We're conditioning buildings and then all of that heating and cooling is literally going out the window.
00;17;58;29 - 00;18;29;26
Kevin Powell
Historically, particularly in older buildings. The challenge is that especially if you are a, you know, an historic building that is a designated historic building, can't really change that. They need to they need to retain their appearance. I think, generally speaking, windows are really something that are expensive, challenging to replace and difficult. So, you know, difficult to adjust to.
00;18;29;27 - 00;18;57;28
Kevin Powell
Like I like was saying you're doing a new building. You can only what any window you want in their historic building. You're going to have to match the window that's there are there are some technologies that are just emerging right now, vacuum insulated glass being the primary one, but actually also a very thin glass that actually was developed or sell phones, gorilla glass and so on.
00;18;58;00 - 00;19;27;19
Kevin Powell
And those two technologies are giving us the opportunity to our windows that have the performance of a wall at bought in the historic profile. All are art an old you know what we consider to be an open store style window or in an insert sort of a high tech storm ranked network. You actually can quickly put into place and remove that.
00;19;27;19 - 00;19;38;25
Kevin Powell
You need to know that again either of those solutions window has the performance of a wall where it used to have the apartments almost.
00;19;39;00 - 00;20;01;22
Rob Trubia
Yeah. Although that's fascinating and I think everybody out there particularly homeowners, can totally relate to this. I mean, you think about it, you buy an old house. I mean, old windows, drafty old windows that your your heat, your energy, it's gone or your air conditioning, your heater, your condition has gone right out the window. First thing somebody wants to do when they get an old time is they want to upgrade the windows because that's where your efficiency comes from.
00;20;02;02 - 00;20;17;14
Rob Trubia
So that's that's pretty cool when you you must get a million ideas. They must come. People must come to you with a million different ideas. Companies. How do you decide which ones you're going to test? What are the factors that you decide and how do you know if they're going to be effective or are they feasible?
00;20;17;16 - 00;20;49;07
Kevin Powell
So just a sense of, you know, what we what we've done over the past decade, there's almost no it's yet backing up to how good things are. Every year we go out to industry, what we call our request for information. That's the federal government to essentially say, send us your best ideas. We've received about a thousand of a past decade, so thousand companies submitted sound innovation about.
00;20;49;13 - 00;21;18;16
Kevin Powell
And these companies range from the largest Fortune 100 to truly app. You know there are people out there garage of those thousand companies we selected about a hundred validated and we done that we do this in conjunction with our advantage and the Department of Energy has a bunch of what they call national labs. Most national labs have really world renowned subject matter experts.
00;21;18;16 - 00;21;49;29
Kevin Powell
Yeah, building knowledge. React three subject matter experts to review each of these submissions. They score them. And based on all of that, we select a best of the best and certainly I'd say we are talking about, I feel every year like like the letters that I the rejection letters particular that I've gotten from colleges back in the day when they said, you know, there were many who were very qualified, you didn't get that would be the case and that's CHIN.
00;21;49;29 - 00;22;12;04
Kevin Powell
So I'm really rejecting, you know, the 900 that didn't make it. They were really qualified. But these found them are really remarkable. They are all then, you know, the 100 out of 100, we've had about a third not really out through doubt in the field where GSA. Okay.
00;22;12;14 - 00;22;27;01
Rob Trubia
And you mentioned Labs and your partnership with Dewey. I read a little bit about something called the Applied Innovation Learning Labs. So it sounds interesting. Certainly intriguing. Can you share about that? What is the Applied Innovation Learning Labs? What goes on there?
00;22;27;03 - 00;22;58;21
Kevin Powell
Well, those this is a new program. I do think it saw it. And of course, I would have to think every program that we leaders it's cool, but this one is definitely cool. And what we're trying to do with the Applied Innovation Learning Lab is really it's really a couple things that. The first is that what ring training Ground does, does well is to evaluate individual technology so we can look at that window, we can look at that.
00;22;58;22 - 00;23;26;28
Kevin Powell
So our we can look at essentially any kid in isolation and say, how does it do? The question is, if we put a bunch of these things together, does the sum on the whole exceed the sum of parts? It's something that we believe to be true. It's something that I colleague at Rocky Mountain Institute calls tunneling through the cost barrier.
00;23;27;03 - 00;24;12;00
Kevin Powell
But what we're going to do with the innovation labs wide innovation learning labs is that those technologies together to bring about that in fact, that we are able to achieve these kinds of deep savings by combining technologies. We're also going to look at which combinations deliver best results. That's that's the first thing these learning that you're doing. And the second thing that they're going to do and we mentioned this app up as they're going to support our understanding where they're going to actually create a foundation for our understanding how the we our, we all electric vehicles.
00;24;12;02 - 00;24;35;10
Kevin Powell
So in the past, all of the vehicles we had were fuel offsite. Now we're talking about fueling vehicles on site as part of our overall energy we're using. Yeah. How do we chew that? The truth is, nobody knows. We're going to figure it out. So super exciting.
00;24;35;10 - 00;24;47;24
Rob Trubia
Bear Yeah, that is that is definitely a fascinating and the fact that you that sounds fun that just how do we roll up our sleeves? How do we figure this out? Because this is a this is something that the whole world wants to figure out.
00;24;47;28 - 00;25;05;22
Kevin Powell
That's that's the idea. And I think the great opportunity that our program as it is that exact point, the whole world wants to figure this out. GSA is actually in this place are leading the charge. Super exciting to be in the middle of.
00;25;05;25 - 00;25;10;22
Rob Trubia
Yeah. I mean that's got to be what gets you up every morning, gets you excited.
00;25;10;22 - 00;25;13;03
Kevin Powell
It does. And takes work late at night.
00;25;13;25 - 00;25;39;24
Rob Trubia
I bet. I bet. You know, when you think about I mean, the big thing is this is a huge investment of taxpayer dollars. But, you know, we're looking for big financial payout. And of course, the environmental impact is is big. We trying to reduce the environmental impact that these buildings have. Are you already seeing some some reduction for emissions or are we still a ways out?
00;25;40;09 - 00;25;49;25
Rob Trubia
What can you share with us of our what can you share with us as far as financial and environmental impact? Are we there yet? Are we seeing a difference or do we just need to be more patient?
00;25;50;00 - 00;26;21;03
Kevin Powell
The reason that Congress put into place this investment in emerging and sustainable technologies as part of the Inflation Reduction Act is based on the track record we demonstrated over the past decade. And so the past decade has been obviously here. So ramp up to this program. But once we got rolling, they had all been largely, if you will, a bootstrap operation, largely financed from the energy savings themselves.
00;26;21;03 - 00;27;05;19
Kevin Powell
So the energy savings through what are called energy savings performance contracts, allowed us to finance investment in these technologies that we built out program. And the the I would say the extraordinary measure success is that we are delivering about $98 million annually, current rate based on that past investment of energy savings to the agency, to the taxpayer, there's $375 million on lifecycle cost avoidance that these technologies, green proving ground technologies that we've deployed are going to deliver.
00;27;06;01 - 00;27;32;25
Kevin Powell
And there's an enormous amount of urban savings. There's more than 160,000 annual production and that the bootstrap operation. So you can only imagine how we're going to supercharge this with this IRA investment. And of course, we're scaling up the number of technologies that would validate. So we'll have a larger set up pools.
00;27;33;00 - 00;27;51;05
Rob Trubia
Yeah. So we don't it's not like we just need to look to 2045 as okay. And 2045 we're going to start to see improvement and boom, we flip a switch. It's not like that. We're ramping up and we're starting to see it sounds like you're we're starting to already see some really tremendous benefits as we get there. And we're just going to see more and more and more benefit.
00;27;51;10 - 00;27;52;03
Rob Trubia
Do I have that right?
00;27;52;13 - 00;27;53;09
Kevin Powell
You got that.
00;27;53;17 - 00;27;53;28
Rob Trubia
Okay.
00;27;53;29 - 00;27;54;24
Kevin Powell
100% right.
00;27;55;07 - 00;28;07;16
Rob Trubia
So, Kevin, you've shared a little bit. The window thing was really interesting. I thought a lot of people could relate to that. Any other particular success story or achievements from you that you could share with our listeners?
00;28;07;24 - 00;28;37;17
Kevin Powell
Some folks may have experienced a Nest thermostat in their and they're all those typical spear Wasserman's out there, and a Nest thermostat is Sanctuary is an early piece of AI enabled technology. You turn the thermostat, it remembers what you did. You keep on turning it to certain ways and it automatically figures out, hey, this is, you know, probably what a big building is, a much more complicated than your home.
00;28;38;08 - 00;29;16;13
Kevin Powell
But that same kind of orientation intelligence is trying to make know. And we are at, I'd say, just just the very earliest days, all of that's going to transform operations, but it is going to transform operations. So buildings are going to be dynamically managed in real time in ways that no human could actually sheet. What's going to be the result is the facility manager will actually be able to do the things that are their best value in terms of managing with the facility, interacting with the tenant.
00;29;17;16 - 00;29;36;29
Kevin Powell
The building itself is going to be more comfortable for the planet and it's going to be able to be much more efficient in the kind of world that we envision where occupancy is going to be running dynamic and slows down the world. People are coming into the office when they come into the office, but they're working on their own.
00;29;36;29 - 00;29;53;25
Kevin Powell
When it's more appropriate to do that, we need buildings that can be operating in that kind of environment. And then of course, the other things to this is that the building needs to be housing, it needs to monitor, and that needs to know what those conditions are and can operate.
00;29;54;12 - 00;30;02;11
Rob Trubia
What's an example of a smart government building today versus what you envision as a smart government building in 20 years?
00;30;02;14 - 00;30;23;03
Kevin Powell
Well, you know, I like to say that the future is already here or but not me. And redistributing. That's not an old mine. I think the Marshall looks at we replaced you know, there was an old federal building in Oklahoma City. That was the one that got bond. And we rebuilt that building, you know, out of a tragedy.
00;30;23;04 - 00;30;58;24
Kevin Powell
We built something that is is a building future that building sounds like. And we got Oklahoma City on a place where there's abundant, dirty, but very inexpensive energy. And this is a building that, you know, again, just based on business done in this model that I said. And so based on the energy saved. So we financed a lot of these improvement just based on the energy savings allowed in this market.
00;30;59;09 - 00;31;29;01
Kevin Powell
Well, this building is what we can call an interactive machine building. Yeah, it dynamically manages its energy load to match what the utility can deliver price signal wise. Also, it manages its energy on onsite energy generation and storage so that we minimize the carbon impact of that building and that it's also designed to really maximize the tenant experience of what kind of comfort is in that building.
00;31;29;13 - 00;32;02;04
Kevin Powell
So to my mind, what the future will be is that sort of building or solar, why there's another building. I would point out that, you know, historic buildings actually, and being very energy efficient, they started out that way. They were nap. So we've been managing since because it was acquiring been had air conditioning. So how do we change most buildings and make them even more technician And I'm really thinking about this.
00;32;02;06 - 00;32;19;14
Kevin Powell
There's a building in Seattle that was our first one back recycling insulated glass. And I think that we're going to start laying out how we can really see that next generation improvement in our store, that Oklahoma City buildings. Of course.
00;32;19;16 - 00;32;40;13
Rob Trubia
We built the name Green Proving Ground really does seem to be perfectly fitting. I mean, you're sounds like you're you're your job. Your team's job is to prove that these technologies can work in a small scale. And then up from there proved that these green technologies can work at a large scale, at a huge scale.
00;32;40;18 - 00;33;31;14
Kevin Powell
It's the the yeah, I sometimes call this the it's it's I use the Harry Potter as our neighbors description That's about right So that it's the it's the and the way Snape describes it in that buckets the exact ah and subtle sign and it's it's it's a it's a real it's a beautiful thing to be able to figure out from just a near locations what can scale and you know I there look at you know in this in our program we see just one little thing going on that you know is going to grow into a giant three and you have to make a decision based on that.
00;33;31;18 - 00;33;39;20
Kevin Powell
So you don't. But we have actually a pretty good track record showing that that can be done.
00;33;39;24 - 00;33;52;22
Rob Trubia
It sounds like there's some art in here, too. I mean, that's a lot of science, but there's some art. It's not all black and white. You've got to have some faith. You've got to have some. I think this is going to work. I think we need to keep going with this. And your team must be doing that every day.
00;33;53;06 - 00;33;57;02
Kevin Powell
Every day we start out with perfect optimism and go from there.
00;33;57;05 - 00;34;08;07
Rob Trubia
Speaking of optimism, really, Kevin, what's got you most optimistic as we close out here? What has got you most optimistic about the future, about what your team is doing every day?
00;34;08;11 - 00;34;42;21
Kevin Powell
I well, well, I do believe that buildings have the single largest potential to turn around our carbon emissions. And yet there's just so much opportunity. And so little of that has been realized yet. There is such a pipeline of innovation that is out there that both at the result of ADM investment as well as private sector investment, a building of the future is going to be as different from the building.
00;34;42;21 - 00;35;08;26
Kevin Powell
Now, today as essentially the telephone of the past that was connected to a wall and a smart phone that we all carry around day to be able to be part of that transformation, to be sort of at the ground floor, as you say, moving out what that looks like that to me as it gets me up every morning, as you say, extra early.
00;35;08;26 - 00;35;20;17
Kevin Powell
And I do stay at lawn as never a day. I don't look forward to coming into the office or coming into my office, sitting down at my desk and getting to work.
00;35;20;21 - 00;35;30;04
Rob Trubia
That's neat because you're on mission. That's what it's you've got a mission. Your team's got a mission. You believe in that mission, and that's your motivating factor?
00;35;30;21 - 00;35;31;18
Kevin Powell
100%.
00;35;31;29 - 00;36;01;21
Rob Trubia
Yeah, that's really cool. And you know, just talking to you, it strikes me and I love learning these things. I love getting to meet people like yourself. This is really cool. I'm talking to the guy that is leading the team that is responsible for bringing green energy, sustainable buildings to the country, and then perhaps beyond that to the world with the portfolio that you have underneath you, the test bed that you have, the scientists that you have.
00;36;01;27 - 00;36;25;02
Rob Trubia
This is really cool. Thank you. I appreciate your time, Kevin. I really do. I we're going to have to wrap up our conversation now, but I really can't thank you enough for taking the time to share your expertise and for giving us an inside look at the work being done at the Green Proving Ground. It really is truly inspirational to see the huge strides being made towards sustainable federal buildings thanks to the hard work and innovation of your entire team.
00;36;25;18 - 00;36;50;07
Rob Trubia
So many possibilities lie ahead, and the future really does look bright in a by the way, I had no idea GSA did that. Be sure to join us next time on GSA does that when we step into the future workforce with OPM director here in Georgia and GSA administrator Robin Carnahan. We'll be talking about what the government is doing to recruit and retain the workforce of tomorrow and just how that might affect you.
00;36;50;23 - 00;37;15;09
Rob Trubia
And remember to subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And for more information, visit GSA dot gov slash podcast or to suggest a topic or guest, send us an email at GSA. Does that at GSA dot gov. I'm your host Robert Tribute. Our executive producer is the one and only Max Tempera GSA does that is a production of the U.S. General Services Administration Office of Strategic Communications.